All four gospels affirm Mary Magdalene’s key role in the Holy Week story as the first to witness the resurrected Jesus. Layers of misconceptions, however, surround one of Jesus’ most loyal followers. Studying Mary Magdalene's life more closely not only teaches us the truth, but also shows that her story can serve as a guide for us on our Easter journey and beyond.
Guest: Rev. Tiffany McDonald
- Follow McDonald's blog at redheadedrev.org.
- McDonald is an ordained elder in the Minnesota Conference of The UMC.
Popular related items on UMC.org
- "Guided by Mary Magdalene: A devotional for Lent"
- "The quite contrary story of Mary Magdalene"
- "Holy Saturday: 'Tarrying Together'"
Join the conversation
Email our host Crystal Caviness or our producer Joe Iovino about this episode, ideas for future topics, or any other thoughts you would like to share.
Help us spread the word
Tell others: members of your church, coworkers, and anyone else might benefit from these conversations.
Share us on Facebook, Twitter, and other social media sites.
Review us on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you download the episode. Great reviews help others find us.
More Get Your Spirit in Shape episodes
- Get Your Spirit in Shape and other United Methodist podcasts
Thank you for listening, subscribing and sharing.
This episode posted on April 18, 2025.
Get Your Spirit in Shape and UMC.org are ministries of United Methodist Communications. For more than 80 years, we have been delivering messages of hope and leading the way in communications ministry. Join us in this vital work by making a tax-deductible donation at ResourceUMC.org/GiveUMCom.
Transcript
Prologue
All four gospels affirm Mary Magdalene's key role in the Holy Week story as the first to witness the resurrected Jesus layers of misconceptions, however, surround one of Jesus' most loyal followers, studying Mary Magdalene's life more closely, not only teaches us the truth, but also shows that her story can serve as a guide for us on our Easter journey and beyond.
Conversation
Crystal Caviness, host: Hi, my name's Crystal Caviness. I'm your host on “Get Your Spirit in Shape.” And today I'm so excited to welcome Reverend Tiffany McDonald. Hi Tiffany.
Rev. Tiffany McDonald, guest: Hi.
Crystal: I'm happy to have you here and I'm excited about what we're going to talk about for this special Good Friday episode. But before we get started, can you share just a little bit about yourself?
Tiffany: Sure. Thanks for having me. I am an ordained elder in the United Methodist Church, serving in the Minnesota Annual Conference. Though I'm currently appointed to family leave and have been since 2020. I live in a suburb of Minneapolis with my husband and our two daughters.
Crystal: Thank you for serving the church and the reason I invited you here today is that one of the ways that you have served the church is that you wrote a devotional for umc.org about Mary Magdalene for this time of Lent and Holy Week, and I was really intrigued with it and of course I will link to it on our episode page when we published the podcast, but I wanted to have more of a conversation about Mary Magdalene with you. I feel like two things after all these years, Mary Magdalene's finally getting some credit for her role in really the Holy Week story. And because we know that she was present, she was the first to encounter the resurrected Jesus, the resurrected Christ. And all four gospels report that even when all four gospels don't agree on other details of the resurrection and of that week, they all agree on that part. But I also think that Mary Magdalene has some baggage with her reputation and I wanted to just have a chance to talk through that because I am learning new things about her and I just kind of feel like if that's true for me, that maybe that is true for other people too. So thanks for being a part of the conversation. Great.
Well, just to get started, let's talk about who she is. What was her role?
Tiffany: Well, according to scripture, she was healed by Jesus and it tells us that she was healed from several sins, seven, but they don't name what they were. And so a lot of speculation has come from, well, what did she have? Was it something that was mental? Was it physical? Was it emotional, was possessed? What exactly was it? The text doesn't tell us, it just says that she was healed. And then we learn also that she was one of the supporters of Jesus and one of his followers, and she's named with other women who were supporters and we believe that they were supporting Jesus financially as well as going with him as part of the crowd and part of his following,
Crystal: I hadn't really thought about that, that Jesus would need some supporters of the ministry outside of just kind of a fan club. He definitely needed ways to have food and lodging and clothing and whatever that would entail. So that's very interesting. I also want to talk about what that means, just that Mary Magdalene, I call her a disciple even though she wasn't named as one of the 12. I just think her role warrants that title. What's your opinion, Tiffany? While we can't know for certain about the significance of her role in Jesus’ life as a woman?
Tiffany: Well, I too call her a disciple because I define disciple as a follower of Jesus and I consider myself a disciple even though she was not a member of the 12, she definitely was a follower and definitely kept close to him and believing in him. I think her role is important because she was a woman and Jesus was revolutionary at his time to include women among his followers and to give them, he names several of them in the gospels including Mary Magdalene and Joanna and Mother, some others. But the fact that she is named in the gospels at all demonstrates her significance, but she's named in all four, and so that even furthers her significance and Jesus was a man of his time and also timeless. And so he was meeting with people that others didn't think he should be, and that included women.
Crystal: I love that his actions definitely were timeless. I really appreciate that you phrased it that way. There are lessons that we can still be learning from for sure. And part of that I think in the lessons is that Mary Magdalene has been misunderstood. Her reputation has been misunderstood. I know even when I was doing a little bit of research, and I certainly haven't studied her to the depth that you have, but I found in one short paragraph, and it was on an encyclopedia site, that some people believe she lived in the south of France and she was in a cavern, lived in a cavern for 30 years where she died. Another part of that said that she was John's wife, and then there was another belief that she was Jesus's wife and even had Jesus's child. So she has had a lot of, her reputation has gone into a lot of ways and there is part of a reputation that we know has kind of prevailed through the years. Can you talk about that for just a minute?
Tiffany: Sure. So we all want to know more than what is present in the biblical text. And so it's fun to think about what could be and what may have happened that the Bible doesn't tell us. And so there's all kinds of stories and theories that have arisen through since Jesus was here until now. But I have always felt a little protective of Mary Magdalene because the tradition that I have heard the most is that she's a prostitute, and there is absolutely no evidence in the Bible that this is true. When I was doing some research, I found that Pope Gregory the Great preached a sermon in 591 linking Mary Magdalene with the sinful woman in Luke, and that's sort of where the tradition of her being a prostitute was. I also personally think that that was very convenient for the patriarchal church to discount Mary in this way and to take away some of her power as someone who supported Jesus with resources and following and staying with him to the end by saying, “oh, but she was just a prostitute. We can't listen to her. She doesn't have anything good for us to say.” Rather than seeing her as who she was, what the gospels say, she was a follower of Jesus who stayed with him until the end, even ministering to his body after his death.
Crystal: That's a really good point that it would have undermined her importance to have cast her in this way. But I will say even if that were true, Jesus would totally have still used someone who may have been a prostitute to walk alongside and to be a devoted follower.
Tiffany: Absolutely. Jesus provided healing and love to so many people and invited them into the abundant life that he said he came to offer us.
Crystal: One of the things that you wrote Tiffany in the devotional is that Mary Magdalene inspired you in your ministry. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Tiffany: Yes. So first of all, I did not have, I grew up in The United Methodist Church. I've always been United Methodist, but I did not have a female pastor until I was in high school. And I don't remember though again being young, but I don't remember anyone really focusing on the fact that Mary was the first one to witness the risen Jesus until I was studying religion in college. And at that point, I had already received my call to ministry. I was already in the process and people were in my life were saying things like, oh, but can women be ministers, particularly those outside of the United Methodist Church? And so I really appreciated Mary Magdalene and turned to her as my justification for my vocation, especially when people were saying that I didn't know that, or I don't think that women should be in ministry.
I would say, well, the first proclaimer of the gospel of the good news was indeed a woman. It was Mary Magdalene, and since then I have just tried to be like her in that sometimes in our faith things aren't always easy, and just because we are Christians and we are believers does not mean that we will not encounter hard times. It doesn't mean that our lives will be perfect, but no matter what happened, Mary was with Jesus till the end when he was hanging on the cross. She did not flee. She did not abandon him, but she stayed and witnessed with him, and it just reminds me that I am called as a pastor to witness to all that life has to offer the good and the bad, but also to know that no matter what is happening, we know how it ends with Jesus, that he is going to be resurrected, but Mary maybe didn't.
She knew what he had taught. All she can maybe think about is this is her friend and teacher dying, a horrific death, and she's there to witness it. And I think it's important for us as Christians to be willing to witness, to walk alongside with people in their lives through all their celebrations, as well as all of those trials and dark times that they might have to go through as well. And so I really just see her as someone who epitomizes all of ministry, being a servant, being a follower of Jesus, sticking through it through the good times and the bad and being ready to share the good news.
Crystal: That's really beautifully said, Tiffany. Thank you. You wrote that following Mary Magdalene's example could be a way that we can move through Holy Week and move through that time. Can you expound on that just a little bit for our listeners?
Tiffany: Sure. I think that it is tempting to jump from Palm Sunday to Easter. In some of our churches, Palm Sunday is just about the palm leaves and the triumphal entry, and some of our churches also touch on the passion story and whether they do or don't, it's still tempting to skip through all of Holy Week and to not go into all of the details that we do know about Jesus's last few days in the gospel of John, for example, six days before the Passover is already John 12. There's only 20 chapters. Most of it is about the last few days of his life, and Mark is the same. I mean all the gospels, they really focus on this time, and so I think it's important for us as Christians to also focus on this time to remember that Jesus gathered with his disciples and instituted the Lord's supper to remember the washing of the feet, to remember all that happened in his arrest and his trial, and then even the crucifixion, and to also observe Saturday as a time of silence and waiting before we then can accept the full joy and grace and wonder.
That is Easter Sunday.
Crystal: Yeah. Yes. Thank you for sharing that. Is there anything that you want to share about Mary Magdalene that you have discovered in addition to what we've talked about that you think might be of special interest to our listeners?
Tiffany: I just think that it's important with Mary Magdalene and any other figure in the Bible to really go to the text itself and see what it says. As United Methodist, we believe in scripture, tradition, experience, and reason, but scripture is primary, and so let's look and see what it actually tells us about our biblical characters.
Crystal: This may not be a fair question to ask, but we know there are some books that didn't make the cut centuries ago. Have you done any research in that there's more information about Mary Magdalene in some of those books.
Tiffany: I have read them though. That was 20 years ago in seminary, and I do think that they can be very helpful to read, to help. What was the tradition of the time? What was the thinking of the time? And then you can decide for yourself and in prayer with God about what you feel like is true for you.
Crystal: Thank you. Well, as we finish up today, I'm going to ask you the question that we ask all of our guests on “Get Your Spirit in Shape” and that's how do you keep your own spirit in shape?
Tiffany: For me, it's writing. I find out what I think and what I'm feeling when I write, and so I actually do this in a few different ways. I do journal and that's probably the best tool for keeping my spirit up. I also correspond with my great aunt and uncle and writing longhand is a great tool and helps. They're a little more chatty about what's going on in their life, but it's also good for me to kind of take stock and then I write sermons and devotions, and that also helps me to solidify what I'm thinking about as I study the scriptures.
Crystal: I love that. And I've read too that there's like then the science behind writing that it's helping you. I mean, as you're writing, you're also processing, but also you're engaging a lot of different parts of your being and your essence when you're writing, so I really love that that's how you choose to keep your spirit in shape as a spiritual discipline.
Tiffany: Yeah, really makes a difference for me, and I can tell when I haven't written for a while, things just feel heavier.
Crystal: Tiffany, thank you for being a guest. Thank you for sharing your writing with UMC.org for all of the entire church to share, especially on this really sacred week when we celebrate, before we get to the celebration, where we remember all that Jesus did and experienced for us, and then for the celebration of Easter. So thank you for that.
Tiffany: Thank you for having me.
Epilogue
That was Reverend Tiffany McDonald discussing Mary Magdalene and her key role in the Easter story. To learn more, go to umc.org/podcast and look for this episode where you'll find helpful links and a transcript of our conversation. If you have questions or comments, feel free to email me at a special email address. Jess, forget your spirit and shape listeners, GYSI [email protected]. If you enjoyed today's episode, we invite you to leave a review on the platform where you get your podcast. Thank you for being a get your spirit and shape listener. I'm Crystal Cas and I look forward to the next time that we're together.
Today's episode has been sponsored by our recognition of World Press Freedom Day as we celebrate the vital role of a free press in connecting our world. Today, we're celebrating United Methodist News and the impactful stories It tells from across our connection stories that might otherwise go untold, from disaster response to ministry profiles. News transforms information into inspiration. Give today at UMNews.org/freepress to help keep stories of faith and hope free for all. That's UMNews.org/freepress where you can make your gift today.
