Even as we believe our differences are our downfall, scripture tells us that diversity is the source of our beauty. Let us take up Jesus’ challenge to be ambassadors of peace, and how, as John Wesley taught, to be of one heart though we are not of one opinion.
Guest: The Rev. Beth Crissman
- Crissman is an ordained elder and district superintendent in the Western North Carolina Conference of The UMC.
- She is the author of The Purple Church Initiative.
- Learn more about the Peace Conference set for April 4-6, 2025.
- Discover how 3 Practice Circles can help us better connect with one another.
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This episode posted on August 16, 2024.
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Transcript
Prologue
"There is this false understanding that we're not supposed to have any conflict in the Church when the reality is. We've always had conflict in the church."
That’s the Rev. Beth Crissman discussing our diversity as a denomination, representing a range of opinions, theologically, socially and politically. Even as we believe our differences are our downfall, scripture tells us that diversity is the source of our beauty. Let us take up Jesus’ challenge to be ambassadors of peace, and how, as John Wesley taught, to be of one heart though we are not of one opinion.
Crystal Caviness, host: Beth, welcome to “Get Your Spirit in Shape.”
Beth Crissman, guest: Thanks, Crystal. It's great to be with you today.
Crystal: I'm so excited that you're here. I will just go ahead and tell our audience. You and I are friends and have been friends for several years and what I love when we get together, we can just talk for a long, long time because we just have these really what I think are interesting conversations. Maybe they're just interesting to me, but I just feel like we can just have some great conversations on relevant and important topics, and so I'm so glad that we can do that today for an episode of “Get Your Spirit in Shape”.
Beth: Thanks, Crystal. I am too. I love our conversations because we never know quite where they're going, but they always go somewhere good. So I'm excited. Thanks for the opportunity.
Crystal: Absolutely. Before we get started with the conversation, I'd love for you to just share a little bit about yourself.
Beth: Oh, thanks. So yes, I am an ordained elder in the Western North Carolina conference and have been serving as clergy. I'm in my 25th year and I'm actually second career. My husband and I both are United Methodist clergy and he also serves as a pastor in the Western North Carolina conference. Also an elder, and we're both Second career, I was a family nurse practitioner and a hospital administrator before going to seminary, and he had a very successful career in business. But one of the things I love Crystal, is that we share kind of a similar journey of starting off young in our lives. Even though we were born and raised in North Carolina, we had some time in the Los Angeles area, so that was a fun thing to learn about each other. But yes, so we've been here in Western North Carolina. I am currently serving as the district superintendent of the Uwharrie District, which is just a beautiful place around the Uwharrie Mountains. And the other part of my two-point charge, if you will, as a district superintendent is I also serve as the Director of Peace Building Ministries for the Western North Carolina Conference as well.
Crystal: And that's why you're here today we're going to talk about peace building and peace. Wow. Thank you for sharing that about yourself and about Kelly, your husband, who was my minister for a season and I really appreciated having him in that church leadership role in my life and my family's life. But peace many days, for me, peace seems so elusive. Everywhere we look, the emails, the text messages, the news, there's strife, there's division, there's conflict. So Jesus very clearly said, blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called children of God. And we use this phrase, I'm a child of God, we're all children of God, but I'm not sure we're all peacemakers
Beth:
Right? And isn't interesting that Jesus says to be a child of God, we should be peacemakers makers of peace, those who advocate for and look for the opportunities to build and make peace wherever we are within our families, within our work settings, within our communities, and well within our congregations too. So yes, you're right. It does feel elusive, doesn't it, Crystal?
Crystal: It does. It's such a season and it has been a season. I say that I don't know, is it a season or is it just the way it's going to be? I just pray that that's not true, but it feels like longer, whatever this season is, it feels like a long one in our churches, in our culture, definitely in our world. It's hard to get away from this hostility that seems to just be hanging in the air all the time. I am someone when I feel strongly about something, I really feel strongly about something.
And sometimes that's to my own detriment. I kind of dig in and I can be judgmental. So I want to talk today about how we kind of transcend those spaces as Christians, as United Methodist. John Wesley, he recognized it too. Paul recognized it. Paul definitely talked to churches that were in conflict. And so there are some things that you are actively involved in as part of your ministry. And one's called the Purple Church Initiative , which we are recording this on August 1st. It just launched today. It's brand new. It's a brand new resource, and we will link to that on our episode page. Definitely want to talk about the Purple Church Initiative . There's a conference coming as well in early 2025. I definitely want to talk about that. So let's kind of just start with the Purple Church Initiative . What does that mean? Purple Church, what does that mean?
Beth: Right. Duke Divinity School actually did research back earlier this year and earlier 2024, and they were looking specifically at the United Methodist Church and looking at the impact of disaffiliations on our denomination. But so what does that mean of who we are as a church now? And what this research discovered is that we are truly a diverse denomination. And the purple, if you think about the color purple in the context of what makes the color purple, is red and blue. And of course, particularly this time of year when we hear red and blue, we think of political affiliations. But what this research found is that we are a diverse denomination politically, theologically, and socially. And what the study really lifted up was some of the challenges that presents in leading congregations that are that diverse, but also that it is part of our identity.
And so it kind of left room for the questions of how do we lean into being the best of that? We have sometimes talked about our desire and commitment to be a big tent denomination that everyone has a place at the table. Everyone is invited to be a part of our family as a connectional church. But in doing that, that means we have to learn to live in our diversity. So the Purple Church Initiative is truly a resource for clergy and laity to lean in and to learn how to be ambassadors of peace and shalom seeking completeness and wholeness in the midst of our diversity, not in spite of it. And we are very, very intentionally releasing this ahead of our elections in November because we know that this time of year, the increased tension and conflict, and in fact, if you think about it, much of politics in this particular election season is built on creating division in the diversity so that we do take a side and vote on it.
Well, we want people to express their voice, but then as Christians, what is our public witness of to have differing voices, but to be able to live in peace and harmony with one another even in the midst of those differences. So that's the focus of the Purple Church Initiative , is to equip and empower our congregations to be ambassadors of peace before, during, and after the elections. Because the reality is Crystal, we won't stop being a purple church the day after the election. We'll always be a purple church. But how do we intentionally learn to live into that? Well, the only said that we'll have peace within our congregations so that we'll be a faithful public witness within our communities.
Crystal:
When you were talking about the Purple Church, the phrase “big tent” definitely came to mind for me. And I grew up United Methodist, and that's something that I've always heard. We are a big tent church. Sometimes we don't look like we're a big tent church. We aren't looking like we're accepting of people who think differently than we do. And as I was reading through the resources, there were several things that really caught my attention, and one was that our differences and disagreements are normal and do not actually harm us. So it's normal that we would disagree. It's normal that we would have differences. So why is it so harmful?
Beth: Right, right. Yeah. So I should have shared Crystal when you were asking, tell us a little bit about yourself. I should probably say that really a major component of my ministry for over 20 years has been helping congregations and leaders within the church learn how to navigate safely and effectively through conflict. And one of the core pieces of my teaching, the first book I ever wrote was called Longing to Belong in 2005. And we really explore within that book that conflict is actually rooted in the Latin word, which means to strike together. And in every relationship we have differing views, opinions, wishes, needs and desires that will strike together. And so conflict, just like you said, is not abnormal. Conflict is not unhealthy. It's how we navigate through the conflict is how we navigate through the differences. And so it's learning how to create sacred space and means by which we can truly be curious about one another.
Tell me what you think, Crystal. I really care. I want to know what's important to you. And even when those are different for us to lean into seeking to understand before we demand being understood by the other person. And so that's part of what we're doing within the Purple Church Initiative is first of all normalizing that our differences are not only, okay, they're important, it's part of the beauty. Scripture is full of beautiful illustrations of how our diversity is what makes us function well. All of the imagery of the church, as the body of Christ is rooted in the differing members with differing functions. So it's learning to embrace our differences is not what harms us, but how we navigate through those differences can definitely harm us. So that's the real key, is learning how to find shalom, find peace, and knowing that shalom completeness will never be complete without embracing our differences.
Crystal: I really appreciate what you said about seeking first to understand. What I heard was before I insist you try to understand how I believe.
Beth: Right. And agree with me. Not only understand, but really I want you to agree with me.
Crystal: Right? Yes. And you used the word curiosity, and I've often thought that curiosity is something that's missing in many of us these days. It's all over children. Children are just curious from the beginning. But whatever happens as we get older, the curiosity is just for many people is gone. So I appreciate that you use that word, be curious in a nonjudgmental way.
Beth: Exactly. Yeah. So one of the recent trainings, in addition to doing a lot of training, I also participate in a lot of training. And I was recently trained in the three practice circles. I don't know if you have been exposed to that Crystal, but it's wonderful. And the three practices. So Jim Hancock and Jim Henderson were the two individuals who really brought these practices to bear. And I love the three practices are very simple, but the first one is I will be genuinely curious or interested in the person in front of me when I am sitting here talking to you, Crystal. My first commitment, my first practice is I'm going to be genuinely interested in what Crystal thinks and what Crystal has to say. And that genuine interest is rooted in the practice of curiosity. And so one of the things that we do in the three practice circles is we ask the clarifying question that begins with, I'd be curious to know, and I just love that.
I'd be curious to know. The second of the practices is I will stay in the room with difference. So just because other people think differently for me, I choose to remain in the room. I choose to remain in the relationship with differences. I choose to remain in a congregation where everyone doesn't think like me. And then the third practice is, and this is a really tough one, I will not compare my best with your worst. I will not compare my best with your worst. And it's interesting, just those three simple practices are a way of fostering healthy communications across those divides that have often put the walls up and have made our relationships difficult. So yeah, curiosity is paramount absolutely key for us to be able to navigate differences.
Crystal: I never heard of the three practice circles, but you said these three simple, there doesn't sound like there's anything simple about them.
Beth: Right? Right, right. Yeah, we call them. They're simple in that they're not difficult to remember, but they're very difficult to live into. Yes. And isn't that the true? Isn't that the way things often are? Crystal is the simpler they are. I don't know. Love God, love your neighbor, love yourself. It's pretty simple. And yet living into that great commandment faithfully is quite challenging. So yeah, you're right. Simple, but not
Crystal: Right, exactly,
I really love that. I mean, honestly, thinking about differences, normalizing differences, I believe that's how you talked about it. That creates a space where we expect it to happen and we don't want to flee, which is number two of your practice circles staying in the room with difference. Stay
Beth: Stay In the room with the difference. Stay in the room with difference.
Crystal: I don't want to be around people sometimes who don't think like I do, just full transparency here. It's like I just kind of need you to affirm that I'm correct and everything is going to be great. So knowing that we're not going to agree possibly because God made us all different and that doesn't make me better, that just makes me different. That feels like a space where we can come together and it feels like a place of connection. Even we are connected because it's normal that we have differences.
Beth: I mean, praise be to God. I mean, that is part of the beauty of who we are and serving as a district superintendent, I've had so many conversations of, well, will this mean that? Does this mean that you don't want any churches who are more conservative or more traditional? And it's like, oh, goodness. No. I think to be the best of who we are as a denomination is we will always have people who are more conservative, who are more of that centrist and who are more progressive. That's part of the beauty of who we are as a church, if we will embrace the beauty of that diversity. And that's the real key. And in many ways, that's the whole focus of the Purple Church Initiative is to say, you know what? And in the resource we actually talk about that Liturgically Purple, the color purple is often used during Advent and LT are two seasons of growth and preparation where we are preparing and growing in this journey toward wholeness and holiness. And I love that the color purple is symbolic of that. And so what would it look like to know that to really become people of personal and social holiness, it would be able to embrace our purpleness. So yeah,
Crystal: I love that connection to those seasons in our church. And so I want to be real clear though, this is a resource and it's definitely for church leaders, but it's definitely for members, anyone.
Beth: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. In fact, some of the resources that are part of the Purple Church Initiative , so there is a six week sermon series with worship resources, everything from hymn selections, prayers, liturgies, and thematic sermon topics. But one of the things we were so excited about is having a weekly summary card that on one side is that week's theme that reflects on the core scriptures. And there is a scripture reading from the Old Testament, the Psalm, an epistle and a gospel reading every week. But on the backside of that card is a prayer that can be prayed throughout that week. But the things that we're really excited about is called Across the Aisle Conversation Starters. And they're very basic questions that our hope is that people will engage these questions in normal conversations throughout that week at the breakfast table with their family, with coworkers at the coffee shop, that when they are out in the public square, if you will, that they'll be having these conversations with others. So that's part of our hope is, and my husband Kelly that you've talked about, and like you said, Crystal Kelly has served as your pastor. He's like, I'm going to print up two of these and put it in the bulletin every week so that they'll keep one for themselves. But I hope that they'll take one of these cards and maybe they'll just leave it on a table somewhere too. And so someone else will pick this up, and we'll engage in these questions that really embrace how to live in our differences.
Crystal: Oh, I love that. I love that.
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Crystal: Beth, one of the pieces that I really love about the initiative is this piece of it called the Peace on Purpose Pledge, and even just thinking Peace on Purpose.
I just love the title of that, but it's something that I as a United Methodist can really just make a pledge to myself. And it's a checklist of, I don't know, about six or seven things and actions and intentions that are about respect, seeking to understand moving away from arguing and having a posture of humility and also resisting and speaking out against violence. So it really does encompass this spectrum of what being a peacemaker that we're called to be, what that looks like. And it even talks about social media. How are we responding and how are we reacting on social media? It feels so relevant for now mean. So thank you for this. And as I said, we're going to link to this on the episode page so everyone can click on it, print it out, put it in all the places.
Beth: Yes, absolutely. Yeah, we really wanted to design the resource Crystal so that it would be very applicable right now and put into the hands of our people simple tools. I mean not only in worship, but to use, whether it's in small groups, Sunday school classes or just like we said across the dinner table in the public square. But we really felt like it needed to culminate in a pledge that we as the church make a commitment to be Ambassadors for peace. I really lean into that term. I think an ambassador is someone who represents well, when we are in the public square, when we are at work, when we're at school, when we are interacting within our families, we are a public witness representing Jesus Christ, the Prince of Peace, and we are ambassadors for him. How are we doing that? And so the Peace on Purpose pledge is a very tangible, applicable tool where we can say to ourselves, like you said, but also to one another.
I commit to doing this. This is how I'm going to be an ambassador for peace in my family and my congregation and my community. And some of those is kind of like what we talked about earlier. They're fairly simple. I mean, they're not complicated to understand, but it may be challenging to do like what is going to be our public witness on social media. I think about the impact of social media. It can be a powerful transformational platform. It also can do incredible harm. And I think our public witness on social platforms is huge right now. And in fact, and we should have said this, the resources themselves will also be available. You can use them to post on your Facebook page, whether it's a local church's Facebook page, the conference, our conference is going to be, and our districts are going to be posting weekly reminders.
Those weekly summary cards will be part of our website, part of our social media presence where we are saying we are standing together for peace because that's how we know that we are children of God is when we are peacemakers in every case. So the Peace on Purpose pledge card, it is just a real tangible way to do that. And we actually encourage folks in the resource to not only do it themselves, but to tell someone else that they're doing it. Research has shown time and time again from a behavior change perspective, a behavior change theory, that we actually will follow through with something if we tell at least one other person about it. And we say, I am witnessing to you that I'm going to do this and I'm inviting you to help hold me accountable to doing this well. So we're encouraging people to do that. And in fact, to get a partner across the aisle, obviously we're doing a play on words here, not only the aisles within our congregations, our sanctuaries, but also the political aisle. Find someone that maybe you happen to know you come from a different perspective, make that commitment together journey through this resource together.
Crystal: Well, we were talking about the Purple Church Initiative and the timing of the release of this is that we're on an election cycle, and I think we're less than a hundred days from our national election, but we aren't new to this place, to this space.
This is not new. We are not that unique that we're the first generation or multiple generations to experience divisiveness. Paul talked about it multiple times. John Wesley, there's a quote that we've been seeing a lot from John Wesley where he says, though we cannot think alike, may we not love alike, love alike. May we not be of one heart, though we are not of one opinion. Without all doubt, we may herein all the children of God may unite not withstanding these smaller differences. So John Wesley handled, he was dealing with this. We have written evidence that Paul, we know Jesus handled divisiveness inside the church as well. So we are not that special that we are trying.
This is new to us. So I want to kind of segue that to the Peace conference that's coming in 2025. Wouldn't it be amazing if we think after the general election that we become a of peace, but as you said, the day after the election, we do not. That is not going to be our reality probably. So there's the Peace Conference coming in 2025. The title is Breaking Down the Dividing Wall. It's going to be April 4th through sixth at Lake Junaluska. And again, we will link to that on the episode page. But I want to hear about this because you've been talking about it with me for a little while. I know you're super excited and I want to hear what it's about, who's invited and all the details.
Beth: Well, let me just begin by saying everyone is invited. This really is to be a conference where people who are passionate like you and I are and many, many others about being ambassadors of peace and creating models for sustainable peace for generations to come. That is really our goal of the Peace Conference. So the PEACE Conference at Lake Junaluska. there was a peace conference from 2009 to 2019. And it's funny, I just always assumed that the conference wasn't, again in 2020 because of the pandemic. So many of us think, oh, if something stopped in 2019, it must've been because of the pandemic. The Peace Conference was originally designed to be a 10 year engagement. They really wanted to offer this for 10 years in a row. But we really, within Western North Carolina and Bishop Ken Carter and I have been in conversation and he really felt like it was time to relaunch the PEACE conference.
And of course I was very excited and passionate about how we could do that. So we are relaunching the PEACE Conference in April of 2025, as you said, fourth through sixth. This is for laity and clergy. It is not exclusively for United Methodist, but we definitely want to invite everyone within our connection to be a part of that, but also to bring friends, bring neighbors, bring colleagues who can come and share your commitment to be equipped and empowered as ambassadors of peace within, again, our families, our churches, and our communities. We are excited, like you said, the theme is breaking down the dividing wall. And it is so interesting, Paul, in that text talks about that Christ is our piece. This is in Ephesians two. Christ is our peace, and that he breaks down the dividing walls. And then Paul goes on to say, which are the hostilities between us?
I think that's so interesting, Crystal, that the dividing walls, as we've talked earlier today, are not our differences. Our differences aren't the dividing walls, it's the hostilities that we have toward one another about our differences. So the theme and the focus of our conference this year will be about breaking down those hostilities that divide us. And we're really going to be focused the first part of the conference about naming what it is that divides us, naming those things. What is it that has created not only conflict, but the harm that we do towards one another, the hostility that's created. And then we're going to focus the second part of the conference on what is it that can heal us now, what is it that will heal us? We're going to be addressing the role of trauma, resilience in peace building the role of nonviolent communication.
So again, we're going to have very interactive plenaries with great keynote speakers. We're so excited about our keynote speakers. We're going to be addressing the impact of nationalism as being that which divides us, gun violence, that divides us, racism that divides us. So we'll be addressing that. And then again, the means by which we can be healed from those hostilities, trauma, resilience, nonviolent communication, wonderful hands-on workshops. There'll be, every participant will have the opportunity to gauge in four different workshops where participants will be learning hand on practical skills that they can take back within their communities to be ambassadors for sustainable peace. Yeah, we're really excited. Can you tell?
Crystal: I can. And it sounds like it's a really an important and valuable time, so thank you for sharing about that. As you finish up today, you had told me before we started recording that there is a favorite Bible verse of yours, and we haven't had a chance to talk about it. So I didn't want the conversation to finish without you sharing that verse and just why it is so meaningful to you in the context of peace. And
Beth: Yeah. So as you have mentioned a couple of times, Crystal, conflict is not new to who we are as humans and violence and war. All that we see around us today has been part of the human condition since we were, since it always has been. And there is false understanding that we're not supposed to have any conflict in the church when the reality is we've always had conflict in the church. And Paul, in his letters to the church at Corinth, talks very, very directly about the conflicts that are there. And in one Corinthians chapter one, verse 10, so Paul doesn't get far into this letter when he says, I plead with you brothers and sisters to stop arguing among yourselves. Now, I think it's very interesting that Paul doesn't tell us to stop disagreeing. He tells us to stop arguing. Being born and raised in the South, I always say that I really wish we had a southern translation of scripture.
And in this verse, I think what Paul was actually saying is, would you just stop bickering? And we know that I've known relationships where goodness, they were in agreement with each other, but they were still bickering. They were still arguing. And so I hear in this scripture that Paul is saying, stop arguing with each other. But then he continues to say, let there be true harmony among you, united in thought and purpose. I am a musician. I grew up playing the piano. I'm a vocalist. I love singing choral music. And the thing about harmony is we can only have harmony when there are differing voices singing differing notes, but they're all tuned to the same common pitch. And of course, that's what Paul means when he said, United in our thought and purpose. And of course, our thought and purpose is loving God, loving our neighbor, loving ourselves.
And so I love this verse, and I think it's at the very core of who I am and my ministry because I truly believe that that's what we're called to. We are called to seek harmony among us, not in spite of our differences, but in the midst of our differences, uniting our voices to our common thought and purpose of fulfilling the great commandment to love God and love our neighbors. Well, Beth, that'll preach. Yes. Oh, well, they preached a lot, hasn't it? I guess we're never supposed to stop preaching it and speaking it. And I think the real challenge Crystal now is for us to live it, it's one thing to preach it. It's another thing to live it. I think about how John Wesley used to say, preach faith until you have it. And once have it, you can preach it. I think in some ways we could say that about peace. We can preach and teach peace until we have it. And then once we have it, we can really preach it and teach it. And I think it comes from just living lives of peace every day.
Crystal: Yeah, I love that. Well, Beth, is there anything that we didn't talk about that you wanted to make sure we mentioned?
Beth: Yeah, no, this has been so rich and I am so excited, Crystal. One thing I will say about the PEACE conference, we do anticipate that the registration for the Peace Conference will be open in September, in early September. So I'll make sure to get that link to you. And of course, if you want to go on the Western North Carolina conference website under our Peace Building Ministries, the link would be there. And again, this is not just for the Western North Carolina conference, this is for anyone, and we hope you'll join us in beautiful Lake Junaluska, which is always beautiful, but especially in the springtime.
Crystal: I was just going to say, I can't think of a more peaceful setting for a peace conference. You’re at the lake with the beautiful mountains around. Yeah, it's really lovely. Well, now I'm going to ask you the question we ask all of our guests on “Get Your Spirit in Shape” and how do you keep your own spirit in shape?
Beth: And I just love that that is your recurring question. And one of the things I learned a long time ago is that Sabbath keeping is really at the core for me of keeping my mind, body, and spirit in shape. It really is the hinge that holds it together. And I love that in the Jewish tradition to welcome in the Sabbath, the phrase that we use is Shabbat Shalom. Shabbat Shalom. And to me, peace Shalom is deeply rooted in a life of Sabbath keeping. So for me, keeping my spirit in shape is remembering the daily Sabbath practices, my daily devotional, having those moments where seek the shalom, I seek peace. But then also I have some real Sabbath activities that are really precious to me. I make homemade pizza every Friday night and Friday afternoon. So around four o'clock on Friday afternoons, I start rising my dough and kneading my dough, and I call it my Friday mix. I have certain music that I put on the jazz or other music that I can sing to while I'm making that pizza. And then as we sit down on Friday evening, whether it's just Kelly and myself or we're sharing that Sabbath meal with friends or other family, we light those candles and we say to one another, Shabbat Shalom.
Crystal: I love that. And I'm making a note that I need to visit you on a Friday evening.
Beth: Absolutely. I think I've extended an invitation.
Crystal: You have extended that invitation.
Beth: You'll have to make your way to Albemarle, North Carolina. But it is my favorite thing to do is having people at the table and for us to be able to experience true Shalom around the table with one another.
Crystal:
That's beautiful. Beth, thank you for your ministry, your important ministry and your love for people, your love for the church, and I just appreciate you so much and thank you for being a guest on “Get Your Spirit in Shape”.
Beth: Well, thank you, Crystal. It's been wonderful as always to be with you. And thank you for the opportunity.
Epilogue
That was the Reverend Beth Crissman discussing how to find joy in a delight-deficient world. To learn more, go to umc.org/podcasts and look for this episode where you will find helpful links and a transcript of our conversation. If you have questions or comments, feel free to email me at a special email address just for “Get Your Spirit in Shape” listeners: [email protected]. If you enjoyed today's episode, we invite you to leave a review on the platform where you get your podcast. Thank you for being a “Get Your Spirit in Shape” listener. I’m Crystal Caviness and I look forward to the next time that we're together.
