A lifelong United Methodist and career minister who describes himself as "conservative" discusses how, rather than focus on differences within the denomination, he concentrates on the common mission to make disciples, a space that supports The UMC’s “big tent” distinction.
Guest: Randy Frye
Frye is senior pastor at First Broad Street United Methodist Church in the Holston Conference.
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This episode posted on June 21, 2024.
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Transcript
Prologue
“I've been a conservative pastor in a quote, liberal mainline denomination, all my ministry.” That's the Reverend Randy Frye, a lifelong United Methodist and career minister, discussing how rather than focus on differences within the denomination, he concentrates on the common mission to make disciples a space that supports The UMCs big tent distinction.
Crystal Caviness, host: Randy, welcome to "Get Your Spirit in Shape."
Randy Frye, guest: Well, thank you. It's an honor to be with you today.
Crystal: I'm glad you're here too. Before dive into our topic, can you tell us just a little bit about yourself?
Randy: Well, I grew up in Knoxville, Tennessee, attended the University of Tennessee, and my master of divinity is from Asbury. My doctor of ministry is from Drew University. I've been a pastor for 43 years in Holston annual conference, and my wife and I have two adult children, and the joy of our lives is our 21-month-old grandson.
Crystal: That sounds wonderful. I understand those joys of grandchildren myself. So thank you for sharing that. Did you grow up Methodist, Randy?
Randy: I did. In fact, my mother and dad, they came to Knoxville after the Second World War. Daddy went to school at UT and they began attending Second United Methodist Church when George Crestwell was the pastor there for many, many years. And by the time I came along shortly thereafter, they began to attend St. Andrew's United, well, at the time, Methodist Church, which was up the hill from where we lived. And that was the place where I was nurtured until I was in college. And then I was working at another church there in the Fountain City area of Knoxville as their youth director through my college years and three years of being in seminary.
Crystal: Well, obviously you're a lifelong Methodist, lifelong United Methodist. I bet it's fair to say you're a lifelong Vols fan.
Randy: Pretty much.
By the way, we won three conference championships in this academic year. Just want to mention that.
Crystal: Go Vols! What do you appreciate most about the denomination? Randy, after growing up in it, you used the word nurtured. I really like how you use that. Tell me how the denomination has nurtured you.
Randy: Well, the pastor that I had during my middle school years, who now, by the way, I'm his pastor at First Broad Street.
Crystal: Oh, I love that.
Randy: Jack brought two people in as our youth directors, and this was a church of 350 members, 400 members, but he brought in two guys, Dr. Jerry Russell, Dr. Ken Sprinkle, when they were college students. And they had a profound impact on my life and my faith. And then as a senior high student, we had another person come in, Carlos Oaks, who is also retired pastor now. And the three of them really helped me to understand what it means to be a follower of Jesus. And because of those three, I not only was able to have a genuine profession of faith and encounter with the Lord at age 15, but at the age of 16 heard my call to ministry and my local church affirmed that calling and gave me lots of opportunities as a high schooler. And before I began work at another church to preach, to teach, to share my faith. And of course the church helped provide funding for my seminary education and it has given me opportunities to serve in rural areas four point circuit. I have been an associate pastor twice. I've served a midsize church, a county, the first Methodist church in a county seat town in Pulaski, Virginia, and as a district superintendent and also two of our largest churches in the conference. So it has created opportunities for me in every stage of ministry that I would've never seen for myself as a 16-year-old answering the call.
Crystal: I've heard other guests on "Get Your Spirit in Shape" talk about how the church provided leadership opportunities for them. Sometimes through camps, sometimes as you mentioned through the local church, and I've experienced that myself. It's like that's a safe place for you to step into roles that might be unfamiliar for you, especially as a young person. So thank you for sharing how your church has been there for you and led you along this path of leadership. One of your roles as a leader in the denomination is that you've served as a general conference delegate for, is it six conferences?
Randy: Well, I've been on the delegation since 2004, so yeah, something like that.
Crystal: Okay. So definitely for 20 years and across those years, I'm sure it's fair to say you've seen a lot of church business.
Randy: Right. Having grown up in the church, I knew there was a level of institution that I wasn't familiar with. I didn't know personally, I knew it existed. And even for the first 20 years of my ministry, we elected delegates to go off to general and jurisdictional conference. But how that worked, how you interact with people of the different jurisdictions of the central conferences, how you have such a wide expanse of convictions, beliefs, concerns, it was a real eyeopener. And the unfortunate part was up until, well, every year that I've gone to general conference, the ranker has intensified as sides, dug their heels into the sand. I came home from St. Louis feeling not happy because of decisions, but more just feeling heartbroken over what I thought was very UNC Christlike behavior on both sides. And it wasn't about convictions, it was about behavior. And I will say that this year, and understandably, because so many people have disaffiliated, you didn't have that level of anchor where there's still differences of opinion. Absolutely. But we treated people in a much kinder way. And you didn't feel the tension that I felt at every other general conference.
Crystal: I was at General Conference as well, and I was in 2019 in St. Louis and then just now in 2024, and I know exactly what you're saying. There was definitely a level of respect that was evidenced in 2024. I want to go back just a minute, Randy, to something you said about learning about the expanse of the church and all the different beliefs and convictions that when you see how large our denomination is, all the cultures that are represented, it is the world. It is definitely a worldwide denomination. As you were learning about that, I think the word you used was the institutional church, but the business of the church, how did that affect your understanding and maybe how you felt about being a part of The UMC?
Randy: What people don't realize, because of course over the last 20 years there's always been one issue that everybody's zeroed in on. That's what gets reported in the press and everything else. But what I've told people for many years is that unfortunately we don't hear the good things. Particularly this past time, 200 years of Methodist missions, we celebrated 80 years of what I think is the greatest area of mission in our church, and that's United Methodist Committee on relief, giving sacramental privilege to deacons, all of which people don't hear about that. And that's one of the things I've been spending a lot of time telling the folk here at First Broad Street about is, yes, we all focus on changes, but we lose sight of these wonderful, incredible ministries that are taking place. I go back to 2008 and at the 2008 general conference, it was nothing but nets and what a phenomenal effort, our denomination and particularly Holston conference, the amount of monies they raised for that, we don't talk about that. Well, that's really being the body of Christ. And so probably the thing I've appreciated most about General Conference and all of 'em is when we get to hear these reports, life-changing transformative ministries that are taking place through the United Methodist Church, that's something to get excited about. Children who got nets that saved their lives, they don't give a hoot about the conflict that takes place in our nomination. All they know and what they focus on is somebody did something to save my life.
Crystal: The Imagine No Malaria Initiative raised I think close to $75 million through the grassroots of The United Methodist Church, churches having pancake suppers and kids selling lemonade. And I mean just you name a very creative grassroots initiative. And that work actually doubled the amount of children who survived in Sub-Saharan Africa.
Randy: One of my favorite mementos of going to General Conference was in 2008, Bishop Bickerton put a challenge out there and delegations started making these pledges. And I was recognized in a microphone, and you may remember that was the last national championship that Pat Summit won at ut. And so I checked with my annual conference treasurer and said, can we commit $15,000? He said, make a phone call. So he made a phone call, he said yes. So I got to, the mic was recognized, Holston committed $15,000 there on the spot. So we essentially won the bidding. And afterwards Bishop Swanson, who was our bishop, then received from the Council of Bishops, a basketball signed by all the bishops. And when I came off the cabinet in 2012, that was the year he was leaving us to go to Mississippi. He gave me that basketball. So every time I walk into my study at home and I see that ball, I think it takes me back to what for me was one of the most wonderful moments. And that's how we came together as one to defeat a common enemy. And so that's one of my treasures.
Crystal: That is a great story, Randy. You're right. It really emphasizes the importance of togetherness. Connection is a word, very United Methodist word is connectional. And as I was growing up in The United Methodist Church, one of the kind of defining terms that I always heard is that we are a big tent denomination. I'm sure you've heard that term as well. A lot of us, it's used a lot. Tell me what your interpretation of being big tent means.
Randy: And I'll repeat what I said in my interview with Annette. Look, I've been a conservative pastor in a quote, liberal mainline denomination. All my ministry, what I focus on are not our differences. And I understand that there are clergy and laity in my conference, in my local church who theologically we're not at the same place. That doesn't mean that we can't be together in one name. I think an example is, if you remember at the general conference in the social principles, the original revision defined marriage as between two consenting adults and the delegate from Zimbabwe proposed an amendment to that two tiered between a man and a woman of consent, age or two adults of consent age. And what I said at a conference event was, look, that wording gave me a place. It created space for me in that it says, you can believe this way or you can define marriage this way and we can still be one. And that's the big tent. And I think that was that whole thing behind Wesley. If your heart is my heart, so let's focus on where are we when we come to understand what does it mean to be a follower of Jesus? The practice of that may differ for some of us, but let's focus on being followers Jesus and growing as spiritually mature disciples.
Crystal: Randy, we have come out of General Conference and a lot of people are, the conversation is we are finally at a place where our church, our denomination, there's no groups of people who are being othered. And that's true on paper, but we know living it day to day is going to take some work. You said you've always been a conservative, you're theologically conservative in what you said is a denomination that you feel is more liberal perhaps. What are some things that you're doing personally to kind of help you live into this place where it might feel uncomfortable for you, a little uncomfortable or maybe a lot uncomfortable, I don't know, but what are some things you're doing?
Randy: Well, and again, I'm going to speak as a member of my experience here at Holston Conference. I have colleagues who are dear friends. We don't agree on every point, but we are still friends. We still love each other, we respect each other. I think that's important. But what I have said to my staff, to my church leadership council and to members of our congregation is we're going to stay focused on the mission. And our mission is to make disciples. We'll sort all these other things out, but whether you are on the right or on the left of this conversation, it's all about the mission. That's why we are here. And so instead of pouring our energies into those things that divide, pour our energies into the task that Jesus has given us, go and make disciples, and we've been really good at First Broad Street, my staff, my leadership council of zeroing in on that focus.
Crystal: That's really well said. And that's a place, well, I know that, I can't remember if I read this or heard this, but I thought it was good advice that when you're in a place where there's a disagreement, find the places where you have agreement and what you just said, how you just expressed that is like we are focused on the mission. Because I think if we're in this church, that's where our heart is and that is a place where we can find a common bond.
Randy: And First Broad Street is a microcosm of our denomination. I have very conservative people. I have very progressive people. The majority of folk are somewhere in the middle. And so we've had some folk leave when we did not go through discernment and disaffiliation two years, and I've had a few people leave since general conference. But the majority of our folk, even though they may be at different polls, we're still able to focus on what makes this a great church. Our music program, our youth program, we're sending 90 something people to John's Island on Saturday. They've been going to John's Island, South Carolina for a week of mission. It's high schoolers and their counselors since the 1980s for over 40 years. And again, the people at John's Island who were going to be serving, they don't care what's going on and the politics of the church, they care about the fact that somebody cares enough to come down and help them do what they can't do for themselves. That's what unites us, the mission.
Crystal: I love that. Well, as we are finishing up today, is there anything that you wanted to share that we haven't yet talked about?
Randy: I was thinking this morning, we are hitting turbulence. Nobody likes turbulence on airplane, but when you hit turbulence, the light comes on, you tighten your seatbelt. The other thing you have to do is you have to trust the one who's leading us, who's flying the plane. And I have said, folks, this is a turbulent time. There's a lot of emotion around this. We're going to strap in, stay focused, and we're going to trust the one who's piloting the plane, and that's the Lord. And we will get beyond the turbulence of this moment. What I don't want to do is lose momentum, get sidetracked when there are still people who need to know and experience the love of Jesus that we have to offer. Let's do that.
Crystal: That's a great analogy, Randy. Thank you for sharing that. Now I'm going to ask you the question we ask all of our guests on “Get Your Spirit in Shape” and how do you keep your own spirit in shape?
Randy: Well, I saw that in the email going, okay, checklist number one, I have a dear friend and we talk at 9:30 almost every night. How's your day? What's happening in your church? How is it with your soul? Those kind of conversations. How are you dealing with this? So having my buddy Tim, is huge. The other thing is I try to make sure that physically, I mean good shape. So I try to get on the treadmill 30 minutes every night. Sometimes I'll go much longer than that. So physically I'm taking care of myself. I have an accountability person. And then I try to do a lot of just reflecting. I don't journal like probably should. I've tried over the years many times. But taking time in the evening just to reflect on my day, what I experienced, where did I see God today, where did I experience a moment of grace today?
And I do that just to put life in perspective so that I don't let the turbulence get bigger than it really is. I don't panic when I come home. One of our dogs in particular, she knows if I've had a bad day, and Vicky and I've talked about this a lot, she may be the most loving dog we've ever had, and we've had plenty. Because if she senses that one of us is stressed or tense, she will come and get right up next to you and just sit there until she feels that I'm okay. So she's another big part of what keeps me healthy.
Crystal: I love that. And it's true that all of God's creation helps to keep our spirits in shape, for sure. Randy, thank you for your leadership in the church and just for all that you're doing in your own congregation, but also serving your conference in the broader church as well. So I appreciate you being a guest with us today.
Randy: Well, thank you. It's been a joy to be with you.
Epilogue
That was the Rev. Randy Frye who describes himself as theologically conservative, discussing how The UMCs “big tent” distinction has provided him a home and a career alongside others with differing views. To learn more, go to UMC.org/podcast and look for this episode where you will find helpful links and a transcript of our conversation. If you have questions or comments, feel free to email me at a special email address just for “Get Your Spirit in Shape” listeners, [email protected]. If you enjoy today's episode, we invite you to leave a review on the podcast platform where you listen. Thank you for taking the time to join us on “Get Your Spirit in Shape.” I’m Crystal Caviness and I look forward to the next time that we're together.
